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 sticky  Author  Topic: What is the difference between JB and LB?  (Read 10723 times)
uncleBen
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xx Re: What is the difference between JB and LB?
« Reply #15 on: Jul 28th, 2009, 09:31am »

If I'm not mistaken, with the unregistered trial version LB is blocked from starting up for increasingly longer time. (For example, I currently have to wait 6 minutes before I could start using it.)
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Passing arrays to subroutines, functions that work with any types, quick string indexing and much more - JBExtensions.

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Mike1056
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xx Re: What is the difference between JB and LB?
« Reply #16 on: Jul 28th, 2009, 09:44am »

Yowch!! I was thinking I'd be able to work on programs on the way into work (it is an hour drive, y'know), but not if I'm spending half my time watchng the editor..lol. Would it be possible to install the registered version to a flash drive and port it between the two computers? I'd absolutely want to use my desktop when I'm at home. It's faster, the keyboard's better and it has a real mouse rather than a touch thingie majigee. But it would be nice to sit at the laundromat or on the way to work, on an airplane or in a coffee shop and work. Thanks!
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JohnDavidson
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xx Re: What is the difference between JB and LB?
« Reply #17 on: Jul 28th, 2009, 11:02am »

Unless things have changed recently, Liberty BASIC is licensed to the user not the machine.
This means that you are allowed to install LB on multiple machines that you use.

I have Liberty BASIC and The Companion, Alyce's e-book, on my desktop and netbook.

John


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xx Re: What is the difference between JB and LB?
« Reply #18 on: Jul 28th, 2009, 1:50pm »

Yes! Yes! YES!!!

I have both LB and JB copied to both flash drives and SD memory cards so I can play with programs where ever I may be. The primary consideration is the location of .BAK files. While you may be running JB/LB from drive F:\ on one computer, plugging it into a different computer may run it from drive J:\. If you always check the location to save .BAK files, you should have no difficulty.

I have never been able to get JB/LB to run from a pocket computer with Windows CE and ARM architecture, but it works just fine on my ACER Netbook with Windows XP, and the Emerson laptop I used to have with Win 95.

Hope you have fun... I generally do! wink
« Last Edit: Jul 28th, 2009, 1:51pm by Welopez » User IP Logged

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Stefan Pendl
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xx Re: What is the difference between JB and LB?
« Reply #19 on: Jul 28th, 2009, 2:24pm »

As John says, LB is registered to the user and since it is unlikely, that you work on more than one computer concurrently, you are allowed to install LB on the desktop and the notebook.

You can put a copy of the LB folder on a flash drive, but you will need to enter the registration code on each computer you are using the LB version located on the flash drive.

LB is not a real portable application in this respect.

On the other hand JB is running well from a flash drive, since it does not need any registration.

I too have LB installed on my desktop and notebook, but I rarely use LB on both at the same time.
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Mike1056
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xx Re: What is the difference between JB and LB?
« Reply #20 on: Jul 28th, 2009, 3:41pm »

This is really helpful information and helped make up my mind. Thanks everyone for all the info!
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xx Re: What is the difference between JB and LB?
« Reply #21 on: Jan 22nd, 2010, 04:51am »

Just to add my 2 cents. About how powerful ability to do API calls is.
Back in time then I was programming VB3 (was it in Windows 3.x era?), then I encountered a thing VB was not able to achieve, I _always_ was able to do it via some API call. (may be my needs were modest then wink)
Now, I pretty often bang my head in a wall with JB. And LB allows API calls...
Go figure wink
« Last Edit: Jan 22nd, 2010, 04:52am by tsh73 » User IP Logged

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A: Go ahead. I had my share of good then I coded it for fun, if you can make better use of it - please do.
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xx Re: What is the difference between JB and LB?
« Reply #22 on: May 14th, 2010, 03:51am »

I don't know guys. 59.95 is a lot to pay.I understand you guys work hard maintaining it but liberty basic has not been upgraded since 2005.Also I tried the evaluation version free-form editor and it looks almost identical to the JB version with a different icon. I cannot tell if there is a real difference or a money ploy. The thing is people usually invest their money in things that they view are worth it.Honestly,access to the winAPI is not THAT amazing especially given the fact so many people struggle with it anyway. I haven't discarded the thought of saving my money to buy it but I want to know that my 60$ is going to do something worthwhile. While I love to support your guys efforts I just cannot buy 60$ software that doesn't seem to have been upgraded past 2005 and with not much more then Just basic.

Some things I like to point out:

-liberty Basic can run on any windows system up to windows vista but windows 7 is not listed.

-It says the price is worth it with the interactive classroom but that isn't needed to learn the language.

-It still uses the now obsolete help file program from windows xp. Meaning you need to download extra things just to get the commercial program working.

-You need a slew of files to make a standalone app.You guessed it! the same TKN thing applies to liberty.Only difference is you need a 60$ gold license to do it!.I would think a better system of making an exe would be implemented for something pricy like that.

-THe alleged forums of liberty basic is a free yahoo group....

-The UI is not that appealing.

-Assist is WAY too much in my opinion.49.95 AND a gold license?!

-Liberty basic adds access to the API but just that.If someone knew how to use the API why would they pay to use it? There are alot of languages that give that access.

-I couldn't find any core liberty basic function that wrapped a particular windows API function.While wrapping can be slower at times it is attractive to people who do not have the background to work with the API.

-Liberty basic has been in version 403 for a little over 5 years now. I haven't seen or heard references from the lead developer "carl" unless it was in a discussion about buying liberty basic or monetary issues. I think you know where I am getting at here.

I am sorry for being so critical but I needed to vent this out. This is in no way defaming liberty basic,but a critique.I always inspect things before buying them anyway.If I am wrong please correct me.

The price part may have been a bit subjective largely due to the fact that I live by allowance,which is unstable by its nature.
« Last Edit: May 14th, 2010, 04:39am by Fendaril » User IP Logged

Rod
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xx Re: What is the difference between JB and LB?
« Reply #23 on: May 14th, 2010, 09:01am »

Well if you don't support it you don't support it and thats just fine. It obviously isn't giving you what you need.

Both Liberty and Just BASIC work in Windows 7. The help file?, well I have to say I found the original easy to use, in fact I still do use the original. The new format is probably the one that needs some work.

The slew of files is down to Smalltalk, the background software. Windows needs a slew of files to and if my recent software purchases are anything to go by then Carl's software builds relatively small applications.

I think the main point your critique misses is that Carl's code opens the door to Windows programming for newbies and many folks rekindling earlier interest in BASIC. It is exceptionally easy to use.

You can't say that about many other tools, folks have reported these are much harder to get into. I don't really understand the API point, I do use the API and only because Carl's software facilitates it and handles the myriad of surrounding tasks.

You can have Just BASIC for free and there never has been any secret that Just BASIC is a teaser/demo start into programming. If anything it was originally directed at youngsters. Liberty offers more functionality, but these pesky Just BASIC youngsters have concocted a host of work rounds to provide a little of the functionality of Liberty. But I use Liberty, I paid once and never regretted that decision.

Development is slow, some of that lands fair and square at the door of Smalltalk. But the rest is down to Carl. Perhaps if we paid more we would get more?, perhaps not.

In the meantime I find that the current software provides all, indeed more functionality than I can use.
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JohnDavidson
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xx Re: What is the difference between JB and LB?
« Reply #24 on: May 14th, 2010, 09:35am »

Quote:
I don't know guys. 59.95 is a lot to pay.I understand you guys work hard maintaining it but liberty basic has not been upgraded since 2005.
Not quite right, we are Liberty BASIC customers.


Quote:
I tried the evaluation version free-form editor and it looks almost identical to the JB version with a different icon.
I cannot tell if there is a real difference or a money ploy.

I take issue to you suggesting that this could be a money ploy, I put in a few hours writing code for LB's version of Freeform.
When I released a Freeform update a public anouncement was made with the link to the FreeForm3 Users Group
I haven't a clue as to what you downloaded but it wasn't FreeForm. FreeForm is free...


I had intended to respond to your post point by point but at this time it would serve no purpose and my eyes are starting to hurt.
Most All of your assumptions are in error and with a little reaseach you would understand.

I see this is your first post here.
Have you been using JB long?

John


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John Davidson
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xx Re: What is the difference between JB and LB?
« Reply #25 on: May 14th, 2010, 10:18am »

Quote:
...I live by allowance.


Not to worry... when you get a job, you can decided whether you want to spend the $60 for Liberty Basic, or would be happier spending $600 or so for Visual Basic SDK.

Over the course of the past 30 years, I have used at least 8 versions of basic. Liberty Basic seems to be the most useful and straight forward, without the plethora of esoteric procedures and commands used by other versions.

Just Basic is FREE and is a natural training ground for those just getting into programming, before they need to spend any money at all. It has a few limitations by design, to encourage the user to graduate to Liberty Basic... but it has the added advantage that EXE programs can be made and distributed by anyone, at no extra cost.

If you are unhappy with the capabilities of Just Basic/Liberty Basic, you are free to purchase and learn Visual Basic, C, Java, and others. No one is forcing you to purchase Liberty.

Quote:
-THe alleged forums of liberty basic is a free yahoo group....


I don't particularly care for that free Yahoo group either, but Liberty does have an authentic Conforums Forum, Liberty Basic. Check it out before you continue your unfounded grievances.
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Facundo
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xx Re: What is the difference between JB and LB?
« Reply #26 on: May 14th, 2010, 8:44pm »

Firs of all, I had the luck to win a registration from a coding contest. I understand about the price, specially if you are not from USA or Europe, like in my case.
There are two LB in development, LB4.04 and LB5. The 4.04 version is in beta testing right now, and it is the version I'm using.
Windows 7 is listed in the new help file.
Quote:
Because Windows Vista and Windows 7 enforces certain practices for security purposes Liberty BASIC has been reworked to fit within the expected behavior.

The language is simple to learn.
The new one uses HTML files as help files. No need to download anything.
The dll and sll files are called libraries, many languages use libraries. The single exe will be implemented in LB5. Carl mentioned it.
There is a Forum and a Yahoo group.
The UI is functional, and you can create your own UI.
You can learn about APIs easily. I don't understand much of it, but it is very simple to use.
Quote:
I haven't seen or heard references from the lead developer

You probably missed the Basic-Bash then, or you didn't know about it. Carl was there Basic-Bash
Quote:
I think you know where I am getting at here.
No, I really don't know. Please explain.

If you don't want to pay for LB, and stay with JB I don't see a problem. There is a free RunBASIC version too.
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cundo aka MSlayer
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xx Re: What is the difference between JB and LB?
« Reply #27 on: May 15th, 2010, 12:45am »

Fendaril -

You would find the FreeForm in Liberty BASIC to be better than the FreeForm in Just BASIC. The better performance and usability would be apparant even if you just use the unregistered shareware form of Liberty BASIC.

Liberty BASIC version 4.04, even as currently "beta" version, should work well in Windows Vista and 7. The trouble would be in using LB of versions 4.03 and lower in Vista or 7.

Quote:
-Liberty basic has been in version 403 for a little over 5 years now. I haven't seen or heard references from the lead developer "carl" unless it was in a discussion about buying liberty basic or monetary issues. I think you know where I am getting at here.


He's not tryng to play money tricks with current or prospective users. He has described a few supplier problems from SmallTalk in his blog and in this JB and LB forums (ConForums). Meanwhile he has been doing what he can in developing version 4.04, version 5 (Liberty BASIC's), and the other product, RUNBASIC.

Actually what I hope would be done would be to revise Just BASIC so that it IS ready for Windows Vista and 7. Still regarding Just BASIC's other limitations, you must understand that Just BASIC was made for the purpose of strongly introducing people to Liberty BASIC; a user learns to use and enjoy Just BASIC for FREE, for as long as the user wants. When the user is ready, he can upgrade to Liberty BASIC, which is very much like Just BASIC; only more features. Also as has been stated, the shareware fee of $60 is much less than for some other well known BASIC's.

Also, as many JB & LB users already know, JB and LB are fairly easy to learn compared to some of the other well known BASIC's.
« Last Edit: May 15th, 2010, 12:47am by tooanalytical » User IP Logged

Stefan Pendl
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xx Re: What is the difference between JB and LB?
« Reply #28 on: May 15th, 2010, 04:23am »

First of all, Liberty BASIC 4.04 is in the final release cycle, since release candidate 2 is already available.

LB 5 would have been long released, if there had not been the problem with the GUI portion of the code, which needed to be delayed due to problems with the development tool used to create LB.

Therefore it was decided to continue work on Run BASIC, which does share the same code base as LB5/JB2, because there was no need for GUI code.

Development of LB4 and JB1 has been a one-man-show, so this is sure one reason for a users needing to be patient.

Starting with the development of LB5, JB2 and RB, Carl has hired another developer, Scott, who is taking the Mac part of development, since the next versions will be cross-platform.

To get a feeling of what LB5 and JB2 syntax will look like, you can try the free RB version, which will show, for instance, how the graphics methods have been changed into functions instead of command strings.

This change alone is surly making JB/LB more user-friendly.



Back to the differences, there is no full list of the commands you get, when you move on to LB, but a brief description at the Just BASIC homepage, see the second paragraph.



Finally, this forum is maintained by the users of JB, all the moderators and administrators have been regular users and do not get paid, nor are in any way employed by Shoptalk Systems.

The staff members of this forum spend their spare time to manage this place, so members can use it and make it as friendly and helpful as possible.

If you want to be part of the community, participate.
« Last Edit: May 15th, 2010, 04:28am by Stefan Pendl » User IP Logged

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Fendaril
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xx Re: What is the difference between JB and LB?
« Reply #29 on: May 15th, 2010, 06:51am »

on May 14th, 2010, 09:35am, JohnDavidson wrote:
Not quite right, we are Liberty BASIC customers.



I take issue to you suggesting that this could be a money ploy, I put in a few hours writing code for LB's version of Freeform.
When I released a Freeform update a public anouncement was made with the link to the FreeForm3 Users Group
I haven't a clue as to what you downloaded but it wasn't FreeForm. FreeForm is free...


I had intended to respond to your post point by point but at this time it would serve no purpose and my eyes are starting to hurt.
Most All of your assumptions are in error and with a little reaseach you would understand.

I see this is your first post here.
Have you been using JB long?

John




Not for an extraneous amount of time.I Still have some of the tutorial and a whole help file to go through. I just posted that rant in here because it was a general discussion topic geared toward that.Actually, I think that was a borderline post and would have been closed deleted if I posted elsewhere. So this is a form of taboo.Plus it was 5 in the morning before school when I wrote that.

ON-TOPIC:

But If anything I would love to buy lb5. It sounds like it corrects all the problems laid out in my post. i wouldn't mind paying 60 bucks for that!
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