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 veryhotthread  Author  Topic: getting started, Pigeon Breeders Records program  (Read 10848 times)
stumpy
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xx Re: getting started, Pigeon Breeders Records progr
« Reply #150 on: Jul 12th, 2017, 3:19pm »

At first it was surprising to me that so few users themselves have seemed to show any interest.

It could be that pigeon fanciers are not looking for any improvement on paper records, and I have some sympathy with that.

But is the PC really a pointless "improvement", or is the program itself deficient in some way?
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Rod
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xx Re: getting started, Pigeon Breeders Records progr
« Reply #151 on: Jul 12th, 2017, 4:06pm »

if folks see value in the program they will adopt it and ask for improvements. If it seems confusing and hard to use they will avoid it.

A few targeted tests with potential users might steer you in the right direction.

Be sure not to deflect or avoid feedback. Listen and learn and never assume they have understood.
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xx Re: getting started, Pigeon Breeders Records progr
« Reply #152 on: Jul 13th, 2017, 04:11am »

Good points. A person did seem to find it useful and kept up with several versions while giving excellent feedback and requests which were implemented.

Along the way a stumbling block turned out to be the installation and renaming of the .exe application to match the latest .tkn. I am still not quite clear why the file extension/file type '.exe' is shown in the list on some PC screens but not on others. It's not hard to end up with a file renamed as 'filename.exe.exe', which could look like 'filename.exe'

Yes, it is difficult to describe unfamiliar functions while maintaining clarity and avoiding repetition. Various guides have multiplied and are now too long so they require wholesale revision. However they have certainly helped to explain things to myself!

I am using it daily to update my own records through the breeding season as the youngsters go through various stages, which keeps exposing more flaws and rough areas. Of course this is complicated by the unexpected interactions and consequences of each change.
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xx Re: getting started, Pigeon Breeders Records progr
« Reply #153 on: Jul 14th, 2017, 03:29am »

Thanks Rod. I have cut a small amount of waffle and included this at the beginning as encouragement:-

"Quickstart
Upack the zip to any folder.
Follow the installation readme.
On the Intro page, adjust the screen setting to your preferred normal PC display.
Click 'Old Birds' and enter the stock birds using the onscreen notes and pop-ups."

Also asked another friend to give it a try but again he is not keen on computers rolleyes
« Last Edit: Jul 14th, 2017, 03:34am by stumpy » User IP Logged

tooanalytical
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xx Re: getting started, Pigeon Breeders Records progr
« Reply #154 on: Jul 14th, 2017, 06:10am »

stumpy,

Without having any technical knowledge about pigeon breeding, and without having the patience to study your code, would the suggestion to .... redevelop and completely rewrite a pigeon breeding software from a fresh start, be to your liking? You might in the redesign process, create a software programming which is easier to maintain and which may do some things/processes better.
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xx Re: getting started, Pigeon Breeders Records progr
« Reply #155 on: Jul 14th, 2017, 07:24am »

tooanalytical,

Yes, thanks that would be the next thing to try when there is time to have another shot at it. For now it does what was intended so a new way of setting out the required info would be first need to be worked up.

As far as clumsy code is concerned, will also need to ask how to avoid spelling out e.g. each box1$/2$/3$(n).... etc. in several routines which are currently like this:

for n = 0 to 24
print #YBrings, box1$(n)
next n

for n = 0 to 24
print #YBrings, box2$(n)
next n

for n = 0 to 24
print #YBrings, box3$(n)
next n

....etc.
« Last Edit: Jul 14th, 2017, 07:44am by stumpy » User IP Logged

tenochtitlanuk ( John F)
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xx Re: getting started, Pigeon Breeders Records progr
« Reply #156 on: Jul 14th, 2017, 4:17pm »

I'd be using a 2D array for that repeated print sequence..

Code:
for i =1 to 10
    for n = 0 to 24
        #YBrings box$( i, n)
    next n
next i
 

Each column of the 2D array replaces your separate 1D arrays.
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xx Re: getting started, Pigeon Breeders Records progr
« Reply #157 on: Jul 14th, 2017, 4:41pm »

Thanks for that, will give it a try. In the example there are 16 boxes, so must also find and review the JB rule which I seem to recall may say something like '2D string arrays (?) above 11 in number must be dimensioned'
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xx Re: getting started, Pigeon Breeders Records progr
« Reply #158 on: Jul 14th, 2017, 6:07pm »

Indeed
Code:
dim box$(10, 24) 


I've not followed your project in detail, but noticed a few ideas in the discussions that will be useful for me.

Regarding other potential 'users' of your code, and whether they seem interested enough to try it- reminds me of trying to show students ( children and adults) that early word processing was actually helpful and constructive back around 1980. Few made the transition until it became overwhelmingly easy. Those first wp programs shuffled unformatted text around in inscrutable ways and were definitely NOT wysiwyg!
But eventually usage picked up, mostly by example from watching another user.
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xx Re: getting started, Pigeon Breeders Records progr
« Reply #159 on: Jul 15th, 2017, 02:26am »

Right. Since adding quickstart and posting in a racing pigeon forum a few people do seem to be willing to try, which is the only way really to see what is going on, otherwise instructions don't help much.

- Version 3.21: fixed bug in load young from edited (non-default) path.

In v3.2 there is a bit of error trapping in case the data made by new code, to store settings as they change, could not be found in a set of data from a previous version.
If, for the user to load a different year's record, the default path had been edited, the error trapping could not find any settings file there.
Just for that situation, the error trapping needed to be by-passed but guess any newcomers would not have had time to get there yet grin

29.07.2017 Version 3.23: fixed bug if 'non-default' dir. is used to "Adopt Pair data"

04.08.2017 Version 3.24: revised to deselect photos in young section for 'Adopt Pair data' and 'Load Nest+Pair data'.

10.08.2017 (version 3.24 update1): apart from the new '.tkn', the replacement/new files "bowl1920 (.bmp)" and "bowl1921
(.bmp)", in folder "bmp1920", are also required.

15.08.2017 (version 3.24 update2): in Young Birds: photo titles 'Father' and 'Mother' changed to 'Cock' and 'Hen', and
' ~ no nest is selected ~ ' is displayed in photo titles upon starting YB, or upon loading data, or upon de-selecting nests.
: In Stock Birds: when adding cock/hen by pasting details with a PR (parent ref) from YB or FT, or entering them into an existing slot, the pedigree of the new entry is shown at once, rather than requiring its re-selection before the pedigree is displayed.

17.08.2017 (version 3.24 update3): In Stock Birds: revised code and screen messages for 'Pick Parents'.

18.08.2017 (version 3.24 update4) : Bugs fixed in the code which had been revised in update 3,
and in Stock: 'cancel' button in 'add cock'/'add hen'.

22.08.207 Version 3.30: Enhanced functions in 'Foster Pair Ops.' ('bull cock' records were already feasible).

11.09.2017 Version 3.31: Bug fixed in half-sibs, and Added buttons 'load alternative', 'save alternative', and text box for quick switching between the nest card records for the previous year and the current year.

12.10.2017 Version 3.32: Added Pairs Printout in the Stock section: The option to save a pdf list of the defined number of pairs, showing the parents of each stock bird but with less space between the pairs.

24.10.2017 (version 3.32 update 1): In Stock Birds: revised pop ups for, and function of, divider/erase ('-----') button.
Apart from new .tkn and .bas files, a replacement folder "guides" is included.

https://chavers.wixsite.com/free-pigeon-records
« Last Edit: Dec 13th, 2017, 4:22pm by stumpy » User IP Logged

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xx Re: getting started, Pigeon Breeders Records progr
« Reply #160 on: Dec 13th, 2017, 4:30pm »

13.12.2017 Version 3.32, update2.

In both sections:
Revised pop ups and error trapping for saving sets of data, which can now be done anywhere on the drive.

Revised overview on the website.

Apart from new .tkn and .bas files, a replacement folder "guides" is included.

https://chavers.wixsite.com/free-pigeon-records
« Last Edit: Dec 13th, 2017, 4:35pm by stumpy » User IP Logged

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xx Re: getting started, Pigeon Breeders Records prog
« Reply #161 on: Dec 13th, 2017, 11:16pm »

I think it might have been Rod or tsh73 who much earlier pointed out that, unless the program's default path to 'breeders' was used, the program could not create a new folder (somewhere else) to carry a user-defined title.

This was for the purpose of storing different sets of (otherwise generic and unrecognisable) data from each section into user-named folders, so that different sets of the same generic data could be identified by those folder titles for updating or for review.

Until then I had been completely unaware of it, and have been sleeping on it ever since! but the following is the basis for the update in the previous post. It seems to do the job but cannot run on its own - just thought it might be of some interest.

Code:
ERROR CHECKING PATCH SO NAMED FOLDERS CAN BE SAVED ANYWHERE ON THE DRIVE 

print #main.DIR, "!contents? saveload$" '--- get a path for saving from
'a textbox edited by the user 
'JustBasic Help describes "DefaultDir$" as "A string variable
'that contains the default directory 
'for the running Just BASIC program".
DefaultDir$ = saveload$ 'set the directory ready to test if user
'can save to it without a crash. 
'(later, before waiting again, '"DefaultDir$" would be restored
'to the program's own default path 
'which is "c:\basic\breeders")
'----------------------------------------- 
g$ = "Save the current record to " + saveload$ + " :-" + chr$(13) + chr$(13)
g$ = g$ + "Any existing record will be overwritten." + chr$(13) + chr$(13)
g$ = g$ + "(If the path exists, except for the last folder," + chr$(13)
g$ = g$ + "then that will be created)."+ chr$(13) + chr$(13)
g$ = g$ + "Ok to proceed ?"
confirm g$; answer$
if answer$ = "no" then [quitsaveone] ' ---out

'-------------------------------now get the variable "result", 
'by using 'mkdir' command for 3 cases *******

result = mkdir(saveload$) '---- so if the last folder in the path
'doesn't exist it will be created etc...

'-----case 1.) **********
if result = 0 then notice saveload$ + " a folder will be created"

'-----case 2.) **********
if result = 3 then '---- means that at least one preceding 'folder is missing
   g$ = "a preceding folder in the path does not exist," + chr$(13) 
   g$ = g$ + "so the last one cannot be created!" + chr$(13) + chr$(13)
   g$ = g$ + "Please check the path: " + saveload$ + "," + chr$(13)
   g$ = g$ + "to make sure the earlier folders exist," + chr$(13)
   g$ = g$ + "and then try again." + chr$(13)
    notice "SAVE FAILED" + chr$(13) + g$
    goto [quitsaveone] '---out 
end if

'Either it has already proved to be case 1.),  or 

'----------case 3.)**********      
'when result = (some other number, other than 0 or 3),
'meaning that the whole (user defined) path already existed,   
'including the last folder, so that would not need to be created. 

'- so set things up ready to save a particular
'set of data to the named file in the "user defined path",
'whether the last folder was missing or not .....
' E.G.
  cockfile$ = saveload$ + "\Recordcocks.dat"
  open cockfile$ for append as #cocksave
  print #cocksave, ""
  close #cocksave
  henfile$ = saveload$ + "\Recordhens.dat"
  open henfile$ for append as #hensave
  print #hensave, ""
  close #hensave
'........................' etc. etc. .....................
 

« Last Edit: Dec 14th, 2017, 12:17am by stumpy » User IP Logged

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